Do you tend to take things literally? | ADHD Information

bepatient, I've noticed a LOT of comorbidies w/ AD(H)D. I'd bet that w/in the next 5 or so years, neuroscientists will discover a brain pattern that's common across many different forms of "mental illness"--to the point that they will no longer be viewed as much as illnesses as simply different (physiological) brain configurations.

I really don't know enough about autism to have a feel for that but there does seem to be a great deal of overlap between AD(H)D and a number of other biologically-based conditions such as bi-polar and OCD. I'm not sure whether the technology isn't there yet (e.g., fMRI, PET, MEG scanning) or there's just not enough research going on.

Taking things too literally is definately ADHD as people with ADHD often have difficulty with abstract ideas. My problem with others has been they don't like my directness at all. I choose not to be fake like lots of others. [QUOTE=paritthead]

My problem is that people DON'T take me literally. I tend to say exactly what I mean, plain and simple. It seems others try to figure out what I really mean - when what I really meant is exactly what I just said!

I wish everyone would say what they mean and mean what they say. Communicating would be so much more effective!

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Absolutely, paritthead...it works boths ways...aside from me taking people literally, as I stated above...you have stated my sentiment perfectly! Why do people think there is a hidden agenda in what I say or an ulterior motive? I say what I mean...period!!! Perhaps if others listened to what I'm saying...not what they think I'm saying, they would know exactly what I mean.

I wish everyone would say what they mean and mean what they say. Communicating would be so much more effective!

I'm open, honest, up front, and most often totally mis-understood. I
don't have a hidden agenda. I some times feel I speak a different
language.

Hello I'm an ADHDer from ADDland. I often visit La La Land...I always come across as gullible because I don't always get it when people are being facetious or sarcastic. My initial reaction to phrases like, " . . . . and if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you!" in my head, I'm thinking, "How did he get to own a bridge? Maybe it was passed down to him from his grandparents or something." Sometimes I realize what's going on before I open my mouth-- sometimes I don't and the person thinks I'm an idiot.

Son and Mom both literal people.

As far as Iq our son gets 3 different scores and lowers each time. Why would that be?

Sachetm... enjoyed your -water story, also.

Yep, I probably would have done the same. hee hee

Oh yeah, I can relate to all of you

Okay, so I've always known I take things so darn literally ... and sometimes people even laugh with me at what I thought they said, but usually I've been made fun of for being so darn 'gullible.' Which is just because I'm too trusting that people say what they mean! Dammit, why don't they?? So I'm a little more serious than some, big deal! But don't make fun of me for it.

I mean, 'what I hear, is what I get.' kwim?

Although I have been developing more of a sense of humor lately and been 'getting' it occasionally when others are not being as literal as I would have heard at one time.

BTW, most of those people on that AS list are/were AD/HD, as well.

I have ADHD and I do take things literally a lot. I have a really hard time with sarcasm unless someone is really obvious about it. "Was she/she serious?" Is a standard question in my universe. sachetm - OK here is one reference to it in children.

School is often where difficulties caused by AD(H)D are first noticed. The structured nature of classroom work can be stressful for the child with AD(H)D because it requires long periods of time sitting in one place and paying attention to teachers. The student frequently disrupts the class, has trouble understanding instructions, can't follow rules, and/or have poor academic performance. They often make careless errors and respond to questions without thinking. Abstract ideas such as the concept of cause and effect are difficult for the student with AD(H)D to understand.

Here's the link: http://ecdc.tamucc.edu/HELP/adhd/parentguide.html

Here's another reference to it:

The student with ADHD or other disabilities related to autism may think "visually." In other words, they take mental photographs or movies of life and their thoughts come in pictures, rather than in words. These students have little trouble understanding concrete terms--nouns and verbs can be pictured. Abstract ideas are not as easily understood until a picture can be attached. These kids are excellent at analogous comparisons--just ask them what your 1/2 eaten graham cracker looks like! Yet, no matter what the age, they won't as easily be able to understand a question such as, "Why can't you be content?" if they have no visual reference or analogy for what "content" is. (An interesting and informative book on this topic is Thinking In Pictures by Temple Grandin, a writer who is autistic)

http://adhd.kids.tripod.com/adhd.html

My granddaughter's teacher mentioned to me that my granddaughter would have problems with higher math because of this. Otherwise I would not have been aware of it.
cynthiatweedle38760.6512037037

[QUOTE=cynthiatweedle]Taking things too literally is definately ADHD as people with ADHD often have difficulty with abstract ideas. [/QUOTE]

Where did you hear this, Cynthia? I'm ADD and quite the opposite is true for me. In fact, I just read the following about a woman (Claudia) in a case study by a neuropsychiatrist that tends to portray the opposite:

"A constantly shifting attentional system produces a hyperawareness which while it causes individuals to miss deails and fail to follow through on tasks, often renders them brilliant at imaginatively reconstructing entire gestalts from partial perceptions and ambiguous information. People [like Claudia] are often highly creative and empathic, and have a knack for making unobvious but keen associations." (p.351 of "A User's Guide to the Brain by John Ratey, MD--coathor of "Driven to Distraction") In the "User's Guide," Ratey explains AD(H)D as essentially a deficiency in the neurotransmitter Dopamine which, among other things, allows people to tie new and novel "information" with information stored in long-term memory, thereby generating new conceptualizations. I haven't run across any scientific explanations that lead to the conclusion you stated and am, therefore, interested in hearing where you got this. (I did run across an author who talks about a controversial classification of AD(H)D as falling into six different categories. Perhaps one of those has this characteristic???[QUOTE=paritthead]

I wish everyone would say what they mean and mean what they say. Communicating would be so much more effective!

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That's easy enough. People (us included) project based on what THEY do. Since most people speak in subtext and are NOT direct, they expect others to do the same thing. In today's world, diversity is NOT celebrated, even though it's the reality.

Putting on my academic hat for a minute, I suspect it goes back to the "survival imperative." If children don't learn to interpret what their parents really mean (and they have normally wired brains), they jeopardize their survival. So they learn to read between the lines of what their parents really mean and want.

Since AD(H)D tends to be inherited, our parents (at least one of them), also tends to be direct (assuming this is a characteristic of an AD(H)D brain--which it sort of looks like it is).

I just watched "Bullworth" on TV the other night. The poor guy had to pay for a hitman to off him so that he could be direct and honest (since he was about to croak, anyway). Of course, that wouldn't win any friends these days (as it did in the movie) because hypocracy is currently the "in" thing.

[QUOTE=TheDog]

wow. The list of people with AS is impressive - makes me almost wish that I had that.

Someone at the school suggested my ten year old nephew might have that also. I'll have to give my sister that list so she has a clue as to what they're talking about.

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YOU WISH TO HAVE A SYNDROME OR DISSORDER?@!?!< WELL YOU DO B/CUZ THAT IS PLAIN SICK!!!!!!

I read more adults are even being diagnosed with Autism also. [QUOTE=rayray812][QUOTE=TheDog]

wow. The list of people with AS is impressive - makes me almost wish that I had that.

Someone at the school suggested my ten year old nephew might have that also. I'll have to give my sister that list so she has a clue as to what they're talking about.

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YOU WISH TO HAVE A SYNDROME OR DISSORDER?@!?!< WELL YOU DO B/CUZ THAT IS PLAIN SICK!!!!!!

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RayRay -

You didn't get what I wrote ... Just a suggestion - it might be a good idea to ask - if you don't understand what has been said - rather than start attacking ...

Relax Rayray. This falls in the category of taking things too literally my friend.

TheDog was just saying that in such a prestigious group of people that it makes it almost seem enviable to be in such a group even if it meant having AS. I'm sure it wasn't meant as a slight to any of us here.

I too take things literally - but no so much with meds as before. I now can rewind what someone says and if its said with a little sarcasm or a smile I can sometimes see the hidden meanings. It's a double-edged sword as I kind of miss the days when people would barb me with cynicism and I'd miss it totally. Those were more peaceful days.

classic example of taking things literally.

I to take things litterally, but have been able to look at the symbol what is being said and react to it. My problem lies in the tome inwhich it is said. I hear one thing when the speaker has said it another way.

I too am honest up front, hold no bars when I talk with friends. some like it some don't and either way thats me.

Sachetm,

Great story. I think I would have told another server that a customer asked me for a .00 glass of water and that I didn't know we had that on the menu!

This is so interesting to me that so many of us are, if not all of us, are so literall. I too say exactly what I mean and I mean what I say. My bf actually told me that he really likes my directness. I just try to make sure I take a few minutes to think before speaking or foot may go in mouth.

Sometimes I will even try to postpone a conversation so I can have time to really ponder how I feel and why I feel a certain way about something. Sometimes it's not even apparent to me at first why I feel so strongly about something, KWIM?

I know I've mentioned this before but I still think that people with ADHD are on the highest functioning end of autism. Haven't read it anywhere but so many traits are similar, just way more suttle.

My daughter was DXed with ADHD at 7, then PDD-NOS (atypical autism) at 12.

The only thing I can comprehend that could be considered a slight is the thought that someone without the disorder could be seen as downplaying the seriousness of AS by saying the envy the people on the list. It's just an ADHD thing and was blown out of proportion. I could see both your admiration of the people and rayray's mistake at seeing what you said as mocking the disorder.

That's why I told rayray to settle down on it. No harm - no foul.

[QUOTE=GlenW]

Relax Rayray. This falls in the category of taking things too literally my friend.

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Glen,

I'm at a complete loss why someone might take what I wrote as a slight to someone here. I even tried to think about it for a while after I read your post - and still don't get it. Maybe it's my add.

So, can you fill me in. How is it that someone would interpret what I wrote as a slight?

AS = Asperger syndrome

It's a sort of high functionaly autism. It has nothing to do with classic autism or Kanner syndrome cos thoose have most of the times less IQ then 70 but AS and HFA (High Functional Autism) have more often higher IQ than avarage but not always but never less than 70. That is cos if you have less than 70 IQ you are diagnosis as mental retardation.

That was quite a complex way of descirbing it, wasn't it? :-) But did you get what I mean? I'll look up an URL to see if I can find a simple site about it.

/Kaks
I definitvely do that. I take everything literally and your story.... Before I read the end I didn't see what you did wrong. I would have done the same.

Though often it doesn't work in you favour, mostly I think it's a bad thig to do. Ppl don't understand that I mean exactly what I say or write, they try to interpret it and out comes the most strange things. And when ppl talk och write to me.... "But you have to understand that I didn't ment it like that, I just said so....." But for God sake, say what you mean then and don't excpect me to guess what you really mean. No wounder we missunderstand eachother in this world.

I didn't think this had anything to do with AD/HD cos it's one of the most common things for ppl with AS to do. I'm not sure but it might be one of the criterions for AS.

/Kaks

Oh, and I have AS that's why I thought it was cos of that. (was that a strange sentence or did I get it right?)

S - That is a great story.

When I was younger, I took almost everything literally. I think most people start doing this considerably less somewhere in their mid-twenties, but for me it was not until mid-thirties that I started in the direction of doing it less.

I'm now in my late thirties - so I've been working at it for a few years. I find that I have to consciously figure out circumstances but then when a similar circumstance comes up - I can relate what I learned previously. As a result, I'm not yet "skilled" at it, but really quite a lot better at it now - since I've had a few years of experiences to consider.

K - What is AS?

TheDog38753.4261574074

I do and it's one of the reasons I'm not more "emotionally intelligent." Here's a cute (and also true) example of one time when it worked in my favor.

The summer between my sophomore and junior years in college, I worked as a waitress for a buffet style but quite "she she" restaurant. The wait staff had little to do since customers served themselves from the buffet line. (Ergo, I had little that I had to remember, praise be!)

One evening a customer asked me for a " glass of water." I thought about what a glass of water would be and went into the kitchen for one of our fanciest glasses, used fancy ice (heart shapes, I think), found a paper doilie, and picked a gladiola from a flower arrangement, and set the flower down on the doilie when I served him his water. He cracked up and left me a tip!

I didn't understand his mirth or the tip (although I was very happy with it as was a LOT of money in 1966). My Mother explained that what he'd actually meant was that he'd leave me a tip if I brought him a glass of water. Duh!

This was one of the very few times when my propensity to take people literally has had a positive result.

I'm not sure whether it's a matter of actually reading people's real meaning but not wanting to take the chance that I'm misinterpreting or stubborness in not wanting to take responsibility for their real meanings. Say what you mean and mean what you say, dammit! Too much work for me to try and figure you out. Just tell me straight out, for Pete's sake!

Might this be another characteristic of AD(H)D or is it just a quirk of my personality?

Kaks - you do an absolute awesome job expressing yourself. I know it is difficult for you, but honestly, you do fine.

Aspergers do have high IQ's that is true. I have actually worked with several children with Autism in the PDD range that have very good IQ's too. I have worked with several in the MR range too. Here is only a partial list of famous Aspies - Pretty impressive, huh? Somewhere on the board there is a list of famous ADHDers too. I'm curious to compare them since ADHD is often comorbid with Asperger's Syndrome.

Historical famous people
Jane Austen, 1775-1817, English novelist, author of Pride and Prejudice
Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770-1827, German/Viennese composer
Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922, Scottish/Canadian/American inventor of the telephone    Anton Bruckner, 1824-1896, Austrian composer
Henry Cavendish, 1731-1810, English/French scientist, discovered the composition of air and water    Emily Dickinson, 1830-1886, US poet
Thomas Edison, 1847-1931, US inventor
Albert Einstein, 1879-1955, German/American theoretical physicist
Henry Ford, 1863-1947, US industrialist
Oliver Heaviside, 1850-1925, English physicist
Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826, US politician
Carl Jung, 1875-1961, Swiss psychoanalyst    Franz Kafka, 1883-1924, Czech writer
Wassily Kandinsky, 1866-1944, Russian/French painter
H P Lovecraft, 1890-1937, US writer
Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911, Czech/Austrian composer
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756-1791, Austrian composer
Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, English mathematician and physicist
Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, German philosopher    Bertrand Russell, 1872-1970, British logician
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950, Irish playwright, writer of Pygmalion, critic and Socialist
Richard Strauss, 1864-1949, German composer
Nikola Tesla, 1856-1943, Serbian/American scientist, engineer, inventor of electric motors
Henry Thoreau, 1817-1862, US writer
Alan Turing, 1912-1954, English mathematician, computer scientist and cryptographer
Mark Twain, 1835-1910, US humorist
Vincent Van Gogh, 1853-1890, Dutch painter
Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889-1951, Viennese/English logician and philosopher
Sorry, I got so into the Asperger's thing, I forgot to answer the question. The answer is...YES! I tend to take things very literally. Once a cashier was very rude to a friend and me, when we left the store, my friend said, "She was just a little short, wasn't she?" I looked back as the cashier and said "Not really, she's taller than me"

Of course my friend meant, she was being short tempered and a bit rude.

wow. The list of people with AS is impressive - makes me almost wish that I had that.

Someone at the school suggested my ten year old nephew might have that also. I'll have to give my sister that list so she has a clue as to what they're talking about.

I notice that my son takes things very literally, the one that I think shows signs of ADHD the most of all my kids.

I think I do too, not as much as my son, but then I probably don't notice it as much.

I also have a child in my class this year with Asperger's Syndrome. He will get 100% on science and history tests if I give them to him orally. He has such a hard time with the written part of school. His handwriting is hard to read. He has such an awesome memory and intelligence.

He is pretty social and does great with the other kids. I think he is doing great!

Sassee - You are welcome. I am fascinated with this myself.

Here's another link that addresses ADHD children being visual-spatial learners.

http://www.visualliteracysolutions.com/addadhd.html

ADHD/ADD individuals generally experience learning problems associated with being highly visual-spatial in their thought processing. Therefore, an effective visual approach to learning involving multi-sensory, visual, tactile and kinesthetic methods has proven highly effective in strengthening neural pathways. Neuropsychological research has shown that the brain is flexible in its ability to learn continuously. Physical and chemical changes do occur in the brain when it is challenged or when new learning takes place. Rehearsing actions helps to forge new neural pathways in the brain, allowing it to develop new competencies in areas that have been deficient. This is how new habits can be learned and coaching can pave the pathway for this learning to occur. It has also become known through the experience of many education professionals that literacy intervention programs that use multi-sensory, visual, tactile and kinesthetic methods to eliminate mental confusion dramatically reduces the symptoms of dyslexia, ADHD and ADD.

Still haven't found the research behind this but there sure is a lot about how to teach ADHD kids on this basis.

Thanks so much cynthia t. You are always so helpful, I really appreciate it!

Last weekend, I took someones 'instructions' literally, after asking them twice!!, and accidently 'BLEW UP A FURNACE" at work

. I did EXACTLY what they asked, with little question involved, even in the back of my mind, I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it! After the explosion, I was too busy trying to get the fire put out to even think about it. The door to the area I was trying to put out had been jammed into the frame by the explosion, so by the time I could get past the smoke and heat, a lot of damage had been done! I've had to develop 'failsafes' in speech ' are you sure thats what you want?' But ,sometimes they just don't work.

I take things literally all the time. Like one time I asked my uncle how many sugars he has in his tea. He said 1 and 3/4. Joking! So I went away and measured out 1 and 3/4 exactly of sugar onto a spoon. Everyone laughed and said he was just being silly.

I always take things the wrong way. It can make me look very stupid, especially at work!!

[QUOTE=cynthiatweedle] sachetm - OK here is one reference to it in children.

School is often where difficulties caused by AD(H)D are first noticed. The structured nature of classroom work can be stressful for the child with AD(H)D because it requires long periods of time sitting in one place and paying attention to teachers. The student frequently disrupts the class, has trouble understanding instructions, can't follow rules, and/or have poor academic performance. They often make careless errors and respond to questions without thinking. Abstract ideas such as the concept of cause and effect are difficult for the student with AD(H)D to understand.

Here's the link: http://ecdc.tamucc.edu/HELP/adhd/parentguide.html

Here's another reference to it:

The student with ADHD or other disabilities related to autism may think "visually." In other words, they take mental photographs or movies of life and their thoughts come in pictures, rather than in words. These students have little trouble understanding concrete terms--nouns and verbs can be pictured. Abstract ideas are not as easily understood until a picture can be attached. These kids are excellent at analogous comparisons--just ask them what your 1/2 eaten graham cracker looks like! Yet, no matter what the age, they won't as easily be able to understand a question such as, "Why can't you be content?" if they have no visual reference or analogy for what "content" is. (An interesting and informative book on this topic is Thinking In Pictures by Temple Grandin, a writer who is autistic)

http://adhd.kids.tripod.com/adhd.html

My granddaughter's teacher mentioned to me that my granddaughter would have problems with higher math because of this. Otherwise I would not have been aware of it.
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Cynthis, because I'm in school (doctoral program in ed and psych), I've been taught to question the validity of much of the information found on the web vs. information in books published by "experts," as well as peer-reviewed journals. Sadly, a lot of teachers aren't trained well or sufficiently regarding many of these disorders.

I'm not saying that your information is incorrect, just that the sources seem questionable sources of expert opinion based on solid research. One thing I wouldn't like to see happen is for your grandaughter to get labeled and responded to by that label unless you're convinced that the label is put there by someone with true expertise for the purpose of effective treatment. Far too often kids live up to the expectations that significant adults around them have for them when those expectations can either be erroneous and/or inappropriate at other life stages. Expectations have a great deal to do with performance by children, as numerous studies over many years have shown.

In addition, there's such a thing as neuroplasticity in the brain meaning that genes may provide a "blueprint" but people can learn, thereby reprogramming their brains. (Read The Mind and the Brain by neurpsychiatrist and UCLA medical school professor, Jeffrey Schwartz for solid data on this phenomenon).

[QUOTE=bepatient]

I know I've mentioned this before but I still think that people with ADHD are on the highest functioning end of autism. Haven't read it anywhere but so many traits are similar, just way more suttle.

My daughter was DXed with ADHD at 7, then PDD-NOS (atypical autism) at 12.

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I recently saw a book at Amazon about "shadow syndromes" (or something like that), written by either a psychologist or psychiatrist with a similar theory--that there were people who had little pieces of "mental illness" but who were still functional. If I run across it again, will give you the reference--if you're still interested. Not sure autism was in there but seem to recall one of the reviews mentioned it--or something. You may be on to something, bepatient!

I believe what you said that reprogramming the brain is possible. I think the information about thinking in pictures has some truth to merely from the fact that I have ADHD and I learn better if I can visualize it.

I had a terrible time learning algebra until I took a remedial algebra class in college. I literally taught myself from the book before class because I was afraid I wouldn't catch it in the classroom. I knew something was wrong, that couldn't just learn from listening. So to me thinking in pictures makes sense as being the reason it was difficult.

I have no doubt that my grandchild can learn higher math, but if she has difficulties I'll have some idea why and possibly can help her train her to "see" it in her mind.

Your comments are appreciated and I will keep them in mind. No, I wouldn't want her to be labeled as incapable of anything. She is a very bright child very capable and determined, if we can just help her not to be so distracted while doing school work. That is her main problem now. I am 62 years old and believe that I learned a lot that helped me to overcome some of the obstacles of ADHD. I learned that when I put my mind to it there wasn't anything I couldn't learn provided I had the time I needed --- despite being easily distracted and never being on medication for ADHD.

Thanks for posting. This is all very fascinating to me.

This whole subject is really fascinating. I think and learn in pictures - and I have a very hard time articulating feelings or ideas - it's always a picture I get (for example, I describe being in love as cartoony stars around my eyes when I look at that person)...that's what I see and that's all I can explain. It's feels like such a struggle to communicate things even though it's right there in my head. I can't learn anything verbally - I have to SEE it done and then I can easily figure it out. It's even more interesting to me now because my 1st cousin has Asperger's. So thanks for these posts you guys, I would love to read anything more you have to say on this subject or any other links you might know about.

Sassee -- I am still searching for more links. I found just a little bit about visual-spatial learners which included something about ADHD. I will see where this takes me. This article is titled Upsidedown Brillance and the Visual Spatial Learner. I hope this link works. There should be no space in visual.

http://www.howard.k12.md.us/glenwood/Silver.pdf#search='vi sual%20spatial%20learners%20ADHD'

cynthiatweedle38762.6765972222Ok Sassee here's one more link. I have tried to find more about this "Thinking in Pictures" in relation to ADHD, but so far all I have found that really descibes this well is a chapter from the book Thinking in Pictures by Temple Grandin, who is autistic. This guy is super smart and managed to use his thinking in pictures to his advantage in overcoming autism. Since you think in pictures you can relate to this, I think.

http://www.templegrandin.com/templegrandinchapterone.html

If I find anything else I'll post it. Gotta quit for now. Happy reading.